Evening Open Thread
Posted by Matt Ortega on May 9, 2008 at 06:00 PMChat away...
Comments - 49 »
Comments - 49 «
I'm so good at this new thread timing. Check out the info in Gates in this most informative article:
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Losing the War for Reality
By Robert Parry
April 8, 2008
When future historians look back at the sharp decline of the United States in the early 21st Century, they might identify the Achilles heel of this seemingly omnipotent nation as its lost ability to recognize reality and to fashion policies to face the real world.
*****
What the Founders did not anticipate, however, was how fragile truth could become in a modern age of excessive government secrecy, hired-gun public relations and big-money media. Sophisticated manipulation of information is what would do the Republic in.
That is the crucial lesson for understanding the arc of U.S. history over the past three decades. It is a central theme of a new book by former CIA analyst Melvin A. Goodman, Failure of Intelligence: The Decline and Fall of the CIA.
As a senior Kremlinologist in the CIA’s office of Soviet analysis, Goodman was on the front lines of the information war in the early 1980s when ideological right-wingers took control of the U.S. government under Ronald Reagan and began to gut the key institutions for assessing reality.
One of the target institutions was the national press corps, which came under sustained assault from the Right – with reporters facing accusations of disloyalty and “liberal bias” from both inside the Reagan administration and from well-financed right-wing attack groups. [For details, see Robert Parry’s Lost History or Secrecy & Privilege.]
Another key institution on the Right’s radar scope was the CIA’s analytical division, which was responsible for supplying objective information about the world’s dangers to senior government officials.
Posted by TomN on May 9, 2008 at 06:46 PM
Posted by TomN on May 9, 2008 at 06:46 PM
Tom, good post. I have read 3 of Parry's books and find the truth sheds a different light on what is going on. The Carlyle Group should be fully revealed also. How the BushCo and connections are getting ultra rich off this war is criminal.
Posted by Followthmoney on May 9, 2008 at 06:58 PM
I've noted a lot of anger with our Middle Eastern allies over the high price of oil and Bush's failure to convince them to increase production. When I saw this I wondered what else we could expect when the invasion of Iraq opened the door to a flood of foreign fighters, the majority of whom came from Saudi Arabia.
This is no secret among those who have served in Iraq. In fact, it has long been known that the majority of bomb making materials for those infamous roadside bombs came from these Sunni fighters. Fighters whom we are now paying not to fight.
Now think about this for a moment. Sunnis with ties to Saudi Arabia are in control of much of Iraq. And, although many of those Sunnis are responsible for the bulk of U.S. casualties in Iraq, our government pays them so that it may go after Shiites with ties to Iran. Who would you think would be in the better position to negotiate?
I don't think that Bush had gotten anywhere with Saudi Arabia and oil production because he has put us in a weak position. His strategy in Iraq requires that he keep those Sunnis happy and the Saudis know it. And that's why they've refused to increase production.
Posted by Marine on May 9, 2008 at 07:11 PM
Maybe Hillary can sell her "kitchen sink" on E-Bay and retire some of her massive debt?
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on May 9, 2008 at 07:34 PM
chimpenfuhrer's WWIII is right on schedule. Now the shia (hezbolah) have taken over half of Beirut in the name of Syria. bush, cheney and malame must be stopped. chimpenfuhrer even has an alibi. He was attending a wedding and boozing it up.
Posted by Johne on May 9, 2008 at 08:50 PM
the chimpenfuhrer civil war is spreading rapidly.
Posted by Johne on May 9, 2008 at 08:57 PM
I like this Medvedev. He is telling bush to shove it.
"It was the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union when Russia showcased its military might in all its glory. On May 9 2008 tanks and missiles rolled across Red Square to mark the 63rd anniversary of Victory in World War II."
"Dmitry Medvedev, the new President of Russia, who officially took office on May 7, delivered a speech to the nation during the parade. Unlike Putin, Medvedev preferred not to draw parallels between the US administration and Nazi Germany."
However, he said the history of World War II had demonstrated that military conflicts are rooted in "irresponsible ambitions which prevail over interests of nations and entire continents."
"We must not allow contempt for the norms of international law," he said in what sounded like a veiled criticism of the United States and its Western allies."
"Russia has consistently criticized both the U.S.-led war in Iraq and wide Western recognition of Kosovo's independence as flagrant violations of international legal norms."
Russia celebrates 63rd anniversary of USSR’s victory in World War II
Posted by Johne on May 9, 2008 at 09:35 PM
rash limpballs was saying today that President Asshole threatened Venezuela this week.
Venezuela is making threatening moves (according to President Asshole) toward chimpenfuhrer's buddies in the criminal state of Columbia.
Chavez told bush to go f**k himself and that if we try anything, he will shut off our oil.
rash didn't think this was any big deal because Chavez would sell his oil to a middleman who would in turn sell it to us. Of course there would be a substantial middleman markup.
rash is a fucking loser like bush and cheney. bush can't win the two wars he got us into. Now he is threatening Venezuela again.
bush is a fucking international criminal and fascist. His grandfather who helped Hitler would be proud.
Posted by Johne on May 9, 2008 at 09:47 PM
or Zack Space.
Posted by fade2bluz on May 9, 2008 at 09:20 PM
Gee, I was just scanned my picture that I keep on my 'fridge of me & Sen. Obama (so my step son can take it to DC when he goes to DC on his 8th grade trip) when he was the guest at Z's fundraiser.
Pull the claws back, bluzy. No need to rag on others lifestyles or the state they live in. Just because you couldn't handle living in a conservative area, don't think the rest of us aren't strong enough.
hahaha
Posted by Esmeralda on May 9, 2008 at 09:56 PM
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on May 9, 2008 at 05:10 PM
Ya outta drive 184 miles a day to get to work and back...and not be a trucker!
Posted by Esmeralda on May 9, 2008 at 10:00 PM
too tired to type.
Have a great evening, everyone.
Posted by Esmeralda on May 9, 2008 at 10:04 PM
too tired to type.
Have a great evening, everyone.
Posted by Esmeralda on May 9, 2008 at 10:04 PM
A sign of our Hoover/Bush times...
Federal regulators close Arkansas bank ANB Financial Friday May 9ANB Financial banks closed by federal regulators over 'unsafe and unsound' practices
BENTONVILLE, Ark. (AP) -- Federal regulators says they've closed ANB Financial National Association banks after discovering "unsafe and unsound" business practices there.David Barr, a spokesman for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. says many customers served by the bank's nine locations had accounts under $100,000, which will be fully insured by the government. Barr says customers can continue to write checks and draw money from ATMs through the weekend.
Barr says Pulaski Bank and Trust Co. agreed to assume control over ANB Financial's bank locations, which will be open Monday.
As of Jan. 31, federal regulators say ANB Financial had about $2.1 billion in assets and $1.8 billion in total deposits.
It was the third closure this year of an FDIC-insured bank. Douglass National Bank, a Missouri bank with $58.5 million in assets, was shut in January; another Missouri institution with assets of $18.7 million, Hume Bank, was shut down in March.
Both were dwarfed in size of ANB Financial, where regulators found lax lending standards, mostly for construction and development loans for projects in Utah, Idaho and Wyoming, as well as Arkansas.
Observers have been watching for signs of bank distress resulting from the mortgage crisis. Profits at federally insured U.S. banks and thrifts plunged to a 16-year low in the fourth quarter as institutions set aside a record-high amount to cover losses from sour mortgages.
The FDIC is planning to beef up its staff, including temporarily hiring up to 25 retired FDIC employees who worked in the agency's more than 200-person division that handles failed banks. They will handle an anticipated increase in bank failures.
(Emphasis mine.)
I wonder what seniors must feel when they see bank closures back again in the news after a lapse of what 70 years? It's that good ole GOP deja vu all over again?
The greed, the corruption, the irresponsibility, the incompetence. And Greenspan tells us the worst of the sub-prime mess is behind us? What do any of them know?
And does anybody trust them any longer to tell the truth even if they knew what was going on?
Hi, Essie.
Been a long week? I hope you enjoy Mother's Day with the grandbaby and your kids. I think about you often.
You have a really important job. Our democracy depends on honest people like you. Don't think we don't know it and appreciate your efforts.
Posted by SandyH on May 9, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Essie,
Not my claws. Quoting from the PowerPoint, p.4.
This would be the divine plan from Clinton. I provided the link, but why not do it again?
again, page 4
but you are spot on about the claws.
Posted by fade2bluz on May 9, 2008 at 11:25 PM
RNC Push polling begins...and they're off. Leaving a paper trail behind.
It's hope vs. stupid.
You just can't fix stupid, can you? We'll see who the winner is in November, unless the paper trails on the magic voting machines ...o never mind.
We have wasted so much precious time, while the Republicans have successfully disenfranchised voters. It's not just 12 nuns--will Missouri be next? looks like it...
here we go again.
Posted by fade2bluz on May 9, 2008 at 11:36 PM
I think Hillary will try to trick Obama. Get him to pay off her debts with the promise she backs out gracefully. Then in June, she doesn't back out - takes it to the convention, splits the party and leaves him hanging with her debt. After the stunts she has pulled, I wouldn't trust her. It's too bad she chose this road. It has made me nervious that she really doesn't care about the country either. When you have to resort to defamating the potential democratic candidate to win, you are in a place you should not be. She could have possibly won or been VP but has blown it with her rovian tactics. The Obliterate Iran statement, The McCain/Clinton Gas Tax Holiday gimmic, The ABC debacle when he gave her a pass on Bosnia and she attacked first chance she got. The "I believe when he say's he is not a Muslum that he is not" statement. The "white" hard working people statement. Saying he is an eleteist, he doesn't have the same amount of experience as she and McCain. She signs papers agreeing MI and FL won't count and then when she is losing she wants "the people to be heard" but then tell the media, "the pledged delegates don't have to vote the way the people, popular vote they are supposed to represent, voted.
Because this country is sinking, millions more people have been paying more attention to reality. The old Rove, if only 10% of the people know I'm lying, then I am telling the truth politics has taken a hit and will not work on the majority.
Besides I don't want uneducated people choosing the president this year, they had their chance and look what we got. Supers it is time to put your own self interest aside and move - like many of the greatest leaders already have. You look weak when you wait because of your own selfish agenda - the people will take note.
Posted by newsjunkie on May 10, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Why is it that we complain that the republicans got people to vote for them out of fear but then some superdelegates will, instead of voting for who they know is the best candidate, would vote out of fear for the other? Have no fear, when you do the right thing good things happen. Vote your mind and your soul, have faith in the american people and in yourself. Supers, it is time to move.
Posted by newsjunkie on May 10, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Records show Sharpton owes overdue taxes, other penaltiesNow the U.S. attorney is investigating his nonprofit group, a probe that an undeterred Sharpton brushes off as the kind of annoyance that civil rights figures have come to expect from the government.
Link
Bush uses the U.S. Attorney Generals to intimidate the civil rights movement, union, and church's for their pro-active stand for human and civil rights, against the Iraq War, anti-corporate stands and like Karl Rove attack on Gov. Siegelman the U.S. Attorney Generals are Bush's pit bulls along with the IRS in denying non-profit status.
It is also like Bush uses corporation tactics for recessions and inflation during election times. Bush needs an America that lives in fear, and is cloned to silence. Bush Administration used corporations also to silence vocal employees who use Free Speech against Bush policies.
Support Free Speech vote the Democratic core.
Posted by YoungPoet on May 10, 2008 at 02:43 AM
I am a business woman. I own a business, am extremely educated and my income is in the top 3%.
I am appalled at the party rules which have caused for an unelectable candidate, magniloquent, superior-acting to getting close to clinching the nomination.
"Winner takes all", and we would already have a nominee: Senator Hillary Clinton, the right candidate for the job.
SHAME ON YOU, not sitting the Michigan and Florida delegates, disenfranchising the voters there, will contribute to your downfall in November: You will not carry Florida, you will not carry Michigan.
I will not stand for this. I have been a Democrat, voted for President Clinton, voted for Al Gore and voted for John Kerry. At this point of the race, John McCain is starting to look great!
If Hillary gets robbed of the nomination as obama cannot carry the key States and has lost all support from the white voters, most women, senior citizens, white blue collar voters, I will vote for McCain and so will our constituents, just listed. Not Mentioning the Swing Voters!!
70% of Hillary's supporters say they will not vote for obama! Do you even know what's going on out there??!!!
How in the world did this happen? William Ayers, Rashid Khalidi, Rezko, Farrakhan, Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama!............... OMG!
SHAME ON YOU!!
Signed: A Republican for the next 4 years. Hillary 2012!
Posted by dem44hill on May 10, 2008 at 02:58 AM
Have you ever noticed that little, pea sized brained, rodents only come out during the wee hours of the morning and then crawl away into their dark little holes when the sun comes up?
Posted by JASt on May 10, 2008 at 07:14 AM
http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/
Just a reminder of what family values you can expect from a repuke.
Posted by Cate on May 10, 2008 at 07:40 AM
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040808J.shtml
remember they are liars...
Posted by Cate on May 10, 2008 at 07:44 AM
I've noted a lot of anger with our Middle Eastern allies over the high price of oil and Bush's failure to convince them to increase production. When I saw this I wondered what else we could expect when the invasion of Iraq opened the door to a flood of foreign fighters, the majority of whom came from Saudi Arabia.
This is no secret among those who have served in Iraq. In fact, it has long been known that the majority of bomb making materials for those infamous roadside bombs came from these Sunni fighters. Fighters whom we are now paying not to fight.
Now think about this for a moment. Sunnis with ties to Saudi Arabia are in control of much of Iraq. And, although many of those Sunnis are responsible for the bulk of U.S. casualties in Iraq, our government pays them so that it may go after Shiites with ties to Iran. Who would you think would be in the better position to negotiate?
I don't think that Bush had gotten anywhere with Saudi Arabia and oil production because he has put us in a weak position. His strategy in Iraq requires that he keep those Sunnis happy and the Saudis know it. And that's why they've refused to increase production.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 07:45 AM
From Raw Story, today. http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Senior_McCain_adviser_helped_arrange_to_0509.html
Posted by Cate on May 10, 2008 at 07:46 AM
Bush/McCain:
Weakening our influence throughout the world
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 07:47 AM
Looks like we have scientific proof why Abortion is unhealthy.
Posted by goober-s on May 10, 2008 at 04:12 AM
btw, how is that old hanger scar on your scalp? Any hair ever grow over it? Your mother sure had bad luck, didn't she! Not enough cash for a real abortion, she was spending it on Budweiser ! Give her my condolences tomorrow on Mother's Day ! hahahaha
In and out today, Dems. blog ya later.......
Posted by PamB on May 10, 2008 at 07:47 AM
Good morning, Marine and JASt.
For some reason when I signed on, I only saw troll droppings. Glad to see Dems!
Posted by Cate on May 10, 2008 at 07:52 AM
Damn- gotta hit refresh just to read a post. ? Hi Pam, bye Pam.
Posted by Cate on May 10, 2008 at 07:57 AM
This appears to be something that supporters of the war in Iraq never understood. They disagreed with the first Bush administration when it said that Iraq could not be invaded without region wide consequences, rather than taking the time to learn why the statement was made in the first place. Purely out of a stubborness to accept anything but a complete and total military defeat of Saddam Hussein, they ignored the advice of top military advisors and diplomats who had themselves once considered this option in great depth.
Lazy minds are to blame here people. Minds that are not willing to weigh the pro's and con's before running off to reep the hypothetical rewards. Something we expect out of imbeciles, but certainly not from our leadership.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 07:58 AM
Good to see you all. Happier to see a Democrat who understood all this and spoke out against it leading the way.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 08:01 AM
good morning. is this thing working?
Posted by gregg on May 10, 2008 at 08:05 AM
And who pays the price for their mental laziness? Our economy, Iraq and the Middle East at large, our military.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 08:05 AM
I suggest we keep putting this stuff out there. After all, it puts things into perspective for folks by speaking of our two greatest issues as one. The struggling economy and this joke of a war are connected at the hip.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 08:10 AM
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 07:45 AM
You've got that right old buddy!
It's kinda hard to negotiate when you're on your hands and knees begging because that is all you can do because you (Bush) has been and still is pimping for the Saudis. (Check Carlyle Corporation members and officers.)
Posted by goodfoe on May 10, 2008 at 08:14 AM
speaking of mental laziness and general abdication of responsibility how about the way our national leaders have trashed the idea of mass transit, subsidies and so forth for decades resulting in the absurd dependency we have on automobiles even inside many congested cities...mass transit has been dealt with as if it were the child of karl marx and now that fuel costs are breaking many family budgets we our country is totally unprepared for:
Gas Prices Send Surge of Riders to Mass Transit
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS
Published: May 10, 2008
DENVER — With the price of gas approaching $4 a gallon, more commuters are abandoning their cars and taking the train or bus instead.
Mass transit systems around the country are seeing standing-room-only crowds on bus lines where seats were once easy to come by. Parking lots at many bus and light rail stations are suddenly overflowing, with commuters in some towns risking a ticket or tow by parking on nearby grassy areas and in vacant lots.
“In almost every transit system I talk to, we’re seeing very high rates of growth the last few months,” said William W. Millar, president of the American Public Transportation Association.
“It’s very clear that a significant portion of the increase in transit use is directly caused by people who are looking for alternatives to paying $3.50 a gallon for gas.”...
Posted by gregg on May 10, 2008 at 08:15 AM
If Bush gets any kind of concessions from the Saudis to increase crude production it will NOT be because of Bush. It will be because the Saudis want to make McCain look good for the election. They would love four more years of the Bush policies and of the US spending our money to fight the Saudis enemies, the Iranians.
Posted by goodfoe on May 10, 2008 at 08:20 AM
and of course we will never forget the great honor and respect with which the bushies and their appointees have treated our fallen soldiers:
Some War Dead Were Cremated at Facility Handling Pets
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 10, 2008; Page A01
The U.S. military has, since 2001, cremated some of the remains of American service members killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere at a Delaware facility that also cremates pets, a practice that ended yesterday when the Pentagon banned the arrangement.
The facility, located in an industrial park near Dover Air Force Base, has cremated about 200 service members, manager David A. Bose estimated last night. It uses separate crematories a few feet apart to cremate humans and animals, he added, insisting that there had "not been any people gone through the pet crematory."...
...perhaps when bush passes on from this veil of tears we should inter him at a pet cemetery...in the reptile section right there with the rest of the snakes...
Posted by gregg on May 10, 2008 at 08:20 AM
NEW THREAD
Posted by goodfoe on May 10, 2008 at 08:25 AM
OOPS!NEW THREAD NOT WORKING YET
Posted by goodfoe on May 10, 2008 at 08:26 AM
Good morning Gregg,...time to take the Boss Lady groc. shopping,....have a great day all!
Posted by goodfoe on May 10, 2008 at 08:29 AM
Morning JASt, Cate, Marine, Pam, gregg and JohnBoy.
I am thorughly disgusted with the despicable human beings who have run our country into the ground. Human beings is too nice a name for them. They are ghouls.
Meanwhile President ahole is partying it up at his ranch in Texas. I wonder how much the secret service is costing us. I heard where one cannot get within miles of the place. How much jet fuel did he piss away flying all his fascist friends to the wedding. cheney is travelling non-stop pissing away jet fuel making speeches all over creation trying to get mcloser elected.
Cleanup on aisle five. We have an infestation of cockroaches on this blog. Have you ever turned on the kitchen light at night the cockroaches scurry for cover. When I lived in Washington, DC years ago I rented a cheap apartment and the cockroaches just about carried off the place.
Call the exterminators.
Posted by Johne on May 10, 2008 at 08:30 AM
We should bury bush and cheney in pig shit at their local landfill. That includes all members of their families.
Posted by Johne on May 10, 2008 at 08:38 AM
Here is a fine example of progressive lifestyle. Bitching about the price of gas, probably drives nothing less than a Caddilac Escalade, believes in Global Warming, loves Al Gore and Abortion(the so-called womans right to decide, but we know better).
Posted by goober-s on May 10, 2008 at 03:21 AM
I drive a 1996 Chevy Lumina. I've been using low test since 2004, which makes my car "perform" less than what it was previously accustom to, but I do monthly maintance by checking all fluids and having the oil changed every 3,000 miles (which is once a month now) I wash the outside every week, and the inside once a month, except in the winter, when I "let it go" for two months. I drive 180 miles Interstate everyday, so I really get decent gas mileage, but at $3.80 a gallon for the cheap/low test, it still costs me $100 a week to drive to work. Except for minimum wage jobs here, there really is no way to make a living paycheck to paycheck unless I drive to the state capitol for my career.
I don't necessarily believe in "global warming," but I do believe that man/woman have been destroying this Earth. God gave it to us to take care of, I don't think we are doing a very good job of it. I see the climate changing around me and read/watch news stories about how climate is changing in other areas of the world. I refuse to stick my head in the sand, like you do, and say that there are no changes.
I respect V.P. Al Gore, and I love all of mankind.
I don't believe in abortion. BUT! I don't believe it should be a crime or outlawed. A woman should if she so chooses, (free will and all that jazz) be able to have an abortion knowing that it is a safe medical procedure.
So, as usual, you are wrong on all points.
Posted by Esmeralda on May 10, 2008 at 08:43 AM
Morning everyone. Nice to see you again JohnBoy, it's been a long time since I had the time to do much more than post and run. How have you been?
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 08:58 AM
good morning, everyone.
Yes, SandyH, life is busy. I used to be able to be involved in so much, but now it's mostly the career and trying to cram it all in (chores & being a mammy) on weekends.
I think about all of you folks here, and do send up prayers now and again speaking each of your names (because most I've never seen, even in pictures) and those names are only the ones you use on a blog.
Very limited political activity due to the ethics policy, so I can't say or do like I had before.
Time to hang the laundry on the line, then it's Bella time!
Enjoy the day, everyone.
Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
Posted by Esmeralda on May 10, 2008 at 08:59 AM
Spoke too soon. Have a nice day everyone.
Posted by Marine on May 10, 2008 at 09:00 AM
Good morning, all.
am extremely educated
Posted by dem44hill on May 10, 2008 at 02:58 AM
Is that so? According to the rest of your post, you think the people here are morons. Why waste your top 3% elitist time trying to educated the unwashed masses?
Enjoy the Crawford wedding today. Be sure to use the dilapidated outhouse the MSM always highlights as a backdrop for their segments from the Busch ranch. You might want to remind Spunky that inside plumbing has been a fixture in even most ghettoes since the 1930’s...as you pick splinters out of your ass.
Good grief, frosty, some amateur GOP troll is trying to make you conservatives out to be radical feminists now! Please tell them not to burn a bra on our behalf.
Posted by SandyH on May 10, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Matt Ortega,
You have a devilish sense of humor. I love the air guitar thing. I meant to say something earlier but forgot.
Tell your mother Happy Mother's Day for me and that someone here thinks she raised a really cool kid.
Posted by SandyH on May 10, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Dem44Hill,
Remember these are the same people who swore there was no way Bush could win a second term. They just don't get it and never will. There are too many people who simply will not vote for Obama for legitimate reasons, however, the Obama supporters just automatically scream racism and can't see the writing on the wall.
I have no doubt that McCain will prevail in the general election. The people here will blame the Clintons as always, but they won't even acknowledge their own part in the destruction of the Democratic Party by undermining the best 8 years this country has had economically in recent history. So sad.
Posted by TillyD on May 11, 2008 at 02:45 PM
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